an invention by rweir
Project Description
Rancher Upgrader helps the user upgrade their rancher install and walks them through all need-to-know release notes.
Why? After reviewing customer issues a pattern was observed, serious changes, deprecations, and bugs are not being communicated to the user. Rancher Upgrader is intended to not only upgrade rancher, but inform the user. Release notes can be intimidating. Critical information can feel hidden among interesting but less-important release notes. Whether someone has the habit to navigate to a release page and read release notes prior to upgrading is outside our control.
Rancher-upgrade will also enforce a proper upgrade path, where a user must upgrade from version v2.x.y to the latest patch of v2.x before upgrade to a new minor. Then they can only upgrade to the latest minor.
Goal for this Hackweek
Create a CLI that can upgrade rancher from one version to another while walking the user through relevant release notes.
Resources
This project is part of:
Hack Week 23
Activity
Comments
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Similar Projects
A CLI for Harvester by mohamed.belgaied
Harvester does not officially come with a CLI tool, the user is supposed to interact with Harvester mostly through the UI. Though it is theoretically possible to use kubectl to interact with Harvester, the manipulation of Kubevirt YAML objects is absolutely not user friendly. Inspired by tools like multipass from Canonical to easily and rapidly create one of multiple VMs, I began the development of Harvester CLI. Currently, it works but Harvester CLI needs some love to be up-to-date with Harvester v1.0.2 and needs some bug fixes and improvements as well.
Project Description
Harvester CLI is a command line interface tool written in Go, designed to simplify interfacing with a Harvester cluster as a user. It is especially useful for testing purposes as you can easily and rapidly create VMs in Harvester by providing a simple command such as:
harvester vm create my-vm --count 5
to create 5 VMs named my-vm-01 to my-vm-05.
Harvester CLI is functional but needs a number of improvements: up-to-date functionality with Harvester v1.0.2 (some minor issues right now), modifying the default behaviour to create an opensuse VM instead of an ubuntu VM, solve some bugs, etc.
Github Repo for Harvester CLI: https://github.com/belgaied2/harvester-cli
Done in previous Hackweeks
- Create a Github actions pipeline to automatically integrate Harvester CLI to Homebrew repositories: DONE
- Automatically package Harvester CLI for OpenSUSE / Redhat RPMs or DEBs: DONE
Goal for this Hackweek
The goal for this Hackweek is to bring Harvester CLI up-to-speed with latest Harvester versions (v1.3.X and v1.4.X), and improve the code quality as well as implement some simple features and bug fixes.
Some nice additions might be: * Improve handling of namespaced objects * Add features, such as network management or Load Balancer creation ? * Add more unit tests and, why not, e2e tests * Improve CI * Improve the overall code quality * Test the program and create issues for it
Issue list is here: https://github.com/belgaied2/harvester-cli/issues
Resources
The project is written in Go, and using client-go the Kubernetes Go Client libraries to communicate with the Harvester API (which is Kubernetes in fact).
Welcome contributions are:
- Testing it and creating issues
- Documentation
- Go code improvement
What you might learn
Harvester CLI might be interesting to you if you want to learn more about:
- GitHub Actions
- Harvester as a SUSE Product
- Go programming language
- Kubernetes API
- Kubevirt API objects (Manipulating VMs and VM Configuration in Kubernetes using Kubevirt)
Rewrite Distrobox in go (POC) by fabriziosestito
Description
Rewriting Distrobox in Go.
Main benefits:
- Easier to maintain and to test
- Adapter pattern for different container backends (LXC, systemd-nspawn, etc.)
Goals
- Build a minimal starting point with core commands
- Keep the CLI interface compatible: existing users shouldn't notice any difference
- Use a clean Go architecture with adapters for different container backends
- Keep dependencies minimal and binary size small
- Benchmark against the original shell script
Resources
- Upstream project: https://github.com/89luca89/distrobox/
- Distrobox site: https://distrobox.it/
- ArchWiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Distrobox
Create a Cloud-Native policy engine with notifying capabilities to optimize resource usage by gbazzotti
Description
The goal of this project is to begin the initial phase of development of an all-in-one Cloud-Native Policy Engine that notifies resource owners when their resources infringe predetermined policies. This was inspired by a current issue in the CES-SRE Team where other solutions seemed to not exactly correspond to the needs of the specific workloads running on the Public Cloud Team space.
The initial architecture can be checked out on the Repository listed under Resources.
Among the features that will differ this project from other monitoring/notification systems:
- Pre-defined sensible policies written at the software-level, avoiding a learning curve by requiring users to write their own policies
- All-in-one functionality: logging, mailing and all other actions are not required to install any additional plugins/packages
- Easy account management, being able to parse all required configuration by a single JSON file
- Eliminate integrations by not requiring metrics to go through a data-agreggator
Goals
- Create a minimal working prototype following the workflow specified on the documentation
- Provide instructions on installation/usage
- Work on email notifying capabilities
Resources
Rewrite Distrobox in go (POC) by fabriziosestito
Description
Rewriting Distrobox in Go.
Main benefits:
- Easier to maintain and to test
- Adapter pattern for different container backends (LXC, systemd-nspawn, etc.)
Goals
- Build a minimal starting point with core commands
- Keep the CLI interface compatible: existing users shouldn't notice any difference
- Use a clean Go architecture with adapters for different container backends
- Keep dependencies minimal and binary size small
- Benchmark against the original shell script
Resources
- Upstream project: https://github.com/89luca89/distrobox/
- Distrobox site: https://distrobox.it/
- ArchWiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Distrobox
Play with the userfaultfd(2) system call and download on demand using HTTP Range Requests with Golang by rbranco
Description
The userfaultfd(2) is a cool system call to handle page faults in user-space. This should allow me to list the contents of an ISO or similar archive without downloading the whole thing. The userfaultfd(2) part can also be done in theory with the PROT_NONE mprotect + SIGSEGV trick, for complete Unix portability, though reportedly being slower.
Goals
- Create my own library for userfaultfd(2) in Golang.
- Create my own library for HTTP Range Requests.
- Complete portability with Unix.
- Benchmarks.
- Contribute some tests to LTP.
Resources
- https://docs.kernel.org/admin-guide/mm/userfaultfd.html
- https://www.cons.org/cracauer/cracauer-userfaultfd.html
Updatecli Autodiscovery supporting WASM plugins by olblak
Description
Updatecli is a Golang Update policy engine that allow to write Update policies in YAML manifest. Updatecli already has a plugin ecosystem for common update strategies such as automating Dockerfile or Kubernetes manifest from Git repositories.
This is what we call autodiscovery where Updatecli generate manifest and apply them dynamically based on some context.
Obviously, the Updatecli project doesn't accept plugins specific to an organization.
I saw project using different languages such as python, C#, or JS to generate those manifest.
It would be great to be able to share and reuse those specific plugins
During the HackWeek, I'll hang on the Updatecli matrix channel
https://matrix.to/#/#Updatecli_community:gitter.im
Goals
Implement autodiscovery plugins using WASM. I am planning to experiment with https://github.com/extism/extism
To build a simple WASM autodiscovery plugin and run it from Updatecli
Resources
- https://github.com/extism/extism
- https://github.com/updatecli/updatecli
- https://www.updatecli.io/docs/core/autodiscovery/
- https://matrix.to/#/#Updatecli_community:gitter.im
SUSE Health Check Tools by roseswe
SUSE HC Tools Overview
A collection of tools written in Bash or Go 1.24++ to make life easier with handling of a bunch of tar.xz balls created by supportconfig.
Background: For SUSE HC we receive a bunch of supportconfig tar balls to check them for misconfiguration, areas for improvement or future changes.
Main focus on these HC are High Availability (pacemaker), SLES itself and SAP workloads, esp. around the SUSE best practices.
Goals
- Overall improvement of the tools
- Adding new collectors
- Add support for SLES16
Resources
csv2xls* example.sh go.mod listprodids.txt sumtext* trails.go README.md csv2xls.go exceltest.go go.sum m.sh* sumtext.go vercheck.py* config.ini csvfiles/ getrpm* listprodids* rpmdate.sh* sumxls* verdriver* credtest.go example.py getrpm.go listprodids.go sccfixer.sh* sumxls.go verdriver.go
docollall.sh* extracthtml.go gethostnamectl* go.sum numastat.go cpuvul* extractcluster.go firmwarebug* gethostnamectl.go m.sh* numastattest.go cpuvul.go extracthtml* firmwarebug.go go.mod numastat* xtr_cib.sh*
$ getrpm -r pacemaker
>> Product ID: 2795 (SUSE Linux Enterprise Server for SAP Applications 15 SP7 x86_64), RPM Name:
+--------------+----------------------------+--------+--------------+--------------------+
| Package Name | Version | Arch | Release | Repository |
+--------------+----------------------------+--------+--------------+--------------------+
| pacemaker | 2.1.10+20250718.fdf796ebc8 | x86_64 | 150700.3.3.1 | sle-ha/15.7/x86_64 |
| pacemaker | 2.1.9+20250410.471584e6a2 | x86_64 | 150700.1.9 | sle-ha/15.7/x86_64 |
+--------------+----------------------------+--------+--------------+--------------------+
Total packages found: 2
HTTP API for nftables by crameleon
Background
The idea originated in https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/164060 and is about building RESTful API which translates authorized HTTP requests to operations in nftables, possibly utilizing libnftables-json(5).
Originally, I started developing such an interface in Go, utilizing https://github.com/google/nftables. The conversion of string networks to nftables set elements was problematic (unfortunately no record of details), and I started a second attempt in Python, which made interaction much simpler thanks to native nftables Python bindings.
Goals
- Find and track the issue with google/nftables
- Revisit and polish the Go or Python code (prefer Go, but possibly depends on implementing missing functionality), primarily the server component
- Finish functionality to interact with nftables sets (retrieving and updating elements), which are of interest for the originating issue
- Align test suite
- Packaging
Resources
- https://git.netfilter.org/nftables/tree/py/src/nftables.py
- https://git.com.de/Georg/nftables-http-api (to be moved to GitHub)
- https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:crameleon:containers/pytest-nftables-container
Results
- Started new https://github.com/tacerus/nftables-http-api.
- First Go nftables issue was related to set elements needing to be added with different start and end addresses - coincidentally, this was recently discovered by someone else, who added a useful helper function for this: https://github.com/google/nftables/pull/342.
- Further improvements submitted: https://github.com/google/nftables/pull/347.
Side results
Upon starting to unify the structure and implementing more functionality, missing JSON output support was noticed for some subcommands in libnftables. Submitted patches here as well:
- https://lore.kernel.org/netfilter-devel/20251203131736.4036382-2-georg@syscid.com/T/#u
Create a go module to wrap happy-compta.fr by cbosdonnat
Description
https://happy-compta.fr is a tool for french work councils simple book keeping. While it does the job, it has no API to work with and it is tedious to enter loads of operations.
Goals
Write a go client module to be used as an API to programmatically manipulate the tool.
Writing an example tool to load data from a CSV file would be good too.
SUSE Health Check Tools by roseswe
SUSE HC Tools Overview
A collection of tools written in Bash or Go 1.24++ to make life easier with handling of a bunch of tar.xz balls created by supportconfig.
Background: For SUSE HC we receive a bunch of supportconfig tar balls to check them for misconfiguration, areas for improvement or future changes.
Main focus on these HC are High Availability (pacemaker), SLES itself and SAP workloads, esp. around the SUSE best practices.
Goals
- Overall improvement of the tools
- Adding new collectors
- Add support for SLES16
Resources
csv2xls* example.sh go.mod listprodids.txt sumtext* trails.go README.md csv2xls.go exceltest.go go.sum m.sh* sumtext.go vercheck.py* config.ini csvfiles/ getrpm* listprodids* rpmdate.sh* sumxls* verdriver* credtest.go example.py getrpm.go listprodids.go sccfixer.sh* sumxls.go verdriver.go
docollall.sh* extracthtml.go gethostnamectl* go.sum numastat.go cpuvul* extractcluster.go firmwarebug* gethostnamectl.go m.sh* numastattest.go cpuvul.go extracthtml* firmwarebug.go go.mod numastat* xtr_cib.sh*
$ getrpm -r pacemaker
>> Product ID: 2795 (SUSE Linux Enterprise Server for SAP Applications 15 SP7 x86_64), RPM Name:
+--------------+----------------------------+--------+--------------+--------------------+
| Package Name | Version | Arch | Release | Repository |
+--------------+----------------------------+--------+--------------+--------------------+
| pacemaker | 2.1.10+20250718.fdf796ebc8 | x86_64 | 150700.3.3.1 | sle-ha/15.7/x86_64 |
| pacemaker | 2.1.9+20250410.471584e6a2 | x86_64 | 150700.1.9 | sle-ha/15.7/x86_64 |
+--------------+----------------------------+--------+--------------+--------------------+
Total packages found: 2
Rewrite Distrobox in go (POC) by fabriziosestito
Description
Rewriting Distrobox in Go.
Main benefits:
- Easier to maintain and to test
- Adapter pattern for different container backends (LXC, systemd-nspawn, etc.)
Goals
- Build a minimal starting point with core commands
- Keep the CLI interface compatible: existing users shouldn't notice any difference
- Use a clean Go architecture with adapters for different container backends
- Keep dependencies minimal and binary size small
- Benchmark against the original shell script
Resources
- Upstream project: https://github.com/89luca89/distrobox/
- Distrobox site: https://distrobox.it/
- ArchWiki: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Distrobox
Help Create A Chat Control Resistant Turnkey Chatmail/Deltachat Relay Stack - Rootless Podman Compose, OpenSUSE BCI, Hardened, & SELinux by 3nd5h1771fy
Description
The Mission: Decentralized & Sovereign Messaging
FYI: If you have never heard of "Chatmail", you can visit their site here, but simply put it can be thought of as the underlying protocol/platform decentralized messengers like DeltaChat use for their communications. Do not confuse it with the honeypot looking non-opensource paid for prodect with better seo that directs you to chatmailsecure(dot)com
In an era of increasing centralized surveillance by unaccountable bad actors (aka BigTech), "Chat Control," and the erosion of digital privacy, the need for sovereign communication infrastructure is critical. Chatmail is a pioneering initiative that bridges the gap between classic email and modern instant messaging, offering metadata-minimized, end-to-end encrypted (E2EE) communication that is interoperable and open.
However, unless you are a seasoned sysadmin, the current recommended deployment method of a Chatmail relay is rigid, fragile, difficult to properly secure, and effectively takes over the entire host the "relay" is deployed on.
Why This Matters
A simple, host agnostic, reproducible deployment lowers the entry cost for anyone wanting to run a privacy‑preserving, decentralized messaging relay. In an era of perpetually resurrected chat‑control legislation threats, EU digital‑sovereignty drives, and many dangers of using big‑tech messaging platforms (Apple iMessage, WhatsApp, FB Messenger, Instagram, SMS, Google Messages, etc...) for any type of communication, providing an easy‑to‑use alternative empowers:
- Censorship resistance - No single entity controls the relay; operators can spin up new nodes quickly.
- Surveillance mitigation - End‑to‑end OpenPGP encryption ensures relay operators never see plaintext.
- Digital sovereignty - Communities can host their own infrastructure under local jurisdiction, aligning with national data‑policy goals.
By turning the Chatmail relay into a plug‑and‑play container stack, we enable broader adoption, foster a resilient messaging fabric, and give developers, activists, and hobbyists a concrete tool to defend privacy online.
Goals
As I indicated earlier, this project aims to drastically simplify the deployment of Chatmail relay. By converting this architecture into a portable, containerized stack using Podman and OpenSUSE base container images, we can allow anyone to deploy their own censorship-resistant, privacy-preserving communications node in minutes.
Our goal for Hack Week: package every component into containers built on openSUSE/MicroOS base images, initially orchestrated with a single container-compose.yml (podman-compose compatible). The stack will:
- Run on any host that supports Podman (including optimizations and enhancements for SELinux‑enabled systems).
- Allow network decoupling by refactoring configurations to move from file-system constrained Unix sockets to internal TCP networking, allowing containers achieve stricter isolation.
- Utilize Enhanced Security with SELinux by using purpose built utilities such as udica we can quickly generate custom SELinux policies for the container stack, ensuring strict confinement superior to standard/typical Docker deployments.
- Allow the use of bind or remote mounted volumes for shared data (
/var/vmail, DKIM keys, TLS certs, etc.). - Replace the local DNS server requirement with a remote DNS‑provider API for DKIM/TXT record publishing.
By delivering a turnkey, host agnostic, reproducible deployment, we lower the barrier for individuals and small communities to launch their own chatmail relays, fostering a decentralized, censorship‑resistant messaging ecosystem that can serve DeltaChat users and/or future services adopting this protocol
Resources
- The links included above
- https://chatmail.at/doc/relay/
- https://delta.chat/en/help
- Project repo -> https://codeberg.org/EndShittification/containerized-chatmail-relay
SUSE Virtualization (Harvester): VM Import UI flow by wombelix
Description
SUSE Virtualization (Harvester) has a vm-import-controller that allows migrating VMs from VMware and OpenStack, but users need to write manifest files and apply them with kubectl to use it. This project is about adding the missing UI pieces to the harvester-ui-extension, making VM Imports accessible without requiring Kubernetes and YAML knowledge.
VMware and OpenStack admins aren't automatically familiar with Kubernetes and YAML. Implementing the UI part for the VM Import feature makes it easier to use and more accessible. The Harvester Enhancement Proposal (HEP) VM Migration controller included a UI flow implementation in its scope. Issue #2274 received multiple comments that an UI integration would be a nice addition, and issue #4663 was created to request the implementation but eventually stalled.
Right now users need to manually create either VmwareSource or OpenstackSource resources, then write VirtualMachineImport manifests with network mappings and all the other configuration options. Users should be able to do that and track import status through the UI without writing YAML.
Work during the Hack Week will be done in this fork in a branch called suse-hack-week-25, making progress publicly visible and open for contributions. When everything works out and the branch is in good shape, it will be submitted as a pull request to harvester-ui-extension to get it included in the next Harvester release.
Testing will focus on VMware since that's what is available in the lab environment (SUSE Virtualization 1.6 single-node cluster, ESXi 8.0 standalone host). Given that this is about UI and surfacing what the vm-import-controller handles, the implementation should work for OpenStack imports as well.
This project is also a personal challenge to learn vue.js and get familiar with Rancher Extensions development, since harvester-ui-extension is built on that framework.
Goals
- Learn Vue.js and Rancher Extensions fundamentals required to finish the project
- Read and learn from other Rancher UI Extensions code, especially understanding the
harvester-ui-extensioncode base - Understand what the
vm-import-controllerand its CRDs require, identify ready to use components in the Rancher UI Extension API that can be leveraged - Implement UI logic for creating and managing
VmwareSource/OpenstackSourceandVirtualMachineImportresources with all relevant configuration options and credentials - Implemnt UI elements to display
VirtualMachineImportstatus and errors
Resources
HEP and related discussion
- https://github.com/harvester/harvester/blob/master/enhancements/20220726-vm-migration.md
- https://github.com/harvester/harvester/issues/2274
- https://github.com/harvester/harvester/issues/4663
SUSE Virtualization VM Import Documentation
Rancher Extensions Documentation
Rancher UI Plugin Examples
Vue Router Essentials
Vue Router API
Vuex Documentation
Cluster API Provider for Harvester by rcase
Project Description
The Cluster API "infrastructure provider" for Harvester, also named CAPHV, makes it possible to use Harvester with Cluster API. This enables people and organisations to create Kubernetes clusters running on VMs created by Harvester using a declarative spec.
The project has been bootstrapped in HackWeek 23, and its code is available here.
Work done in HackWeek 2023
- Have a early working version of the provider available on Rancher Sandbox : *DONE *
- Demonstrated the created cluster can be imported using Rancher Turtles: DONE
- Stretch goal - demonstrate using the new provider with CAPRKE2: DONE and the templates are available on the repo
DONE in HackWeek 24:
- Add more Unit Tests
- Improve Status Conditions for some phases
- Add cloud provider config generation
- Testing with Harvester v1.3.2
- Template improvements
- Issues creation
DONE in 2025 (out of Hackweek)
- Support of ClusterClass
- Add to
clusterctlcommunity providers, you can add it directly withclusterctl - Testing on newer versions of Harvester v1.4.X and v1.5.X
- Support for
clusterctl generate cluster ... - Improve Status Conditions to reflect current state of Infrastructure
- Improve CI (some bugs for release creation)
Goals for HackWeek 2025
- FIRST and FOREMOST, any topic is important to you
- Add e2e testing
- Certify the provider for Rancher Turtles
- Add Machine pool labeling
- Add PCI-e passthrough capabilities.
- Other improvement suggestions are welcome!
Thanks to @isim and Dominic Giebert for their contributions!
Resources
Looking for help from anyone interested in Cluster API (CAPI) or who wants to learn more about Harvester.
This will be an infrastructure provider for Cluster API. Some background reading for the CAPI aspect:
Rancher/k8s Trouble-Maker by tonyhansen
Project Description
When studying for my RHCSA, I found trouble-maker, which is a program that breaks a Linux OS and requires you to fix it. I want to create something similar for Rancher/k8s that can allow for troubleshooting an unknown environment.
Goals for Hackweek 25
- Update to modern Rancher and verify that existing tests still work
- Change testing logic to populate secrets instead of requiring a secondary script
- Add new tests
Goals for Hackweek 24 (Complete)
- Create a basic framework for creating Rancher/k8s cluster lab environments as needed for the Break/Fix
- Create at least 5 modules that can be applied to the cluster and require troubleshooting
Resources
- https://github.com/celidon/rancher-troublemaker
- https://github.com/rancher/terraform-provider-rancher2
- https://github.com/rancher/tf-rancher-up
- https://github.com/rancher/quickstart
The Agentic Rancher Experiment: Do Androids Dream of Electric Cattle? by moio
Rancher is a beast of a codebase. Let's investigate if the new 2025 generation of GitHub Autonomous Coding Agents and Copilot Workspaces can actually tame it. 
The Plan
Create a sandbox GitHub Organization, clone in key Rancher repositories, and let the AI loose to see if it can handle real-world enterprise OSS maintenance - or if it just hallucinates new breeds of Kubernetes resources!
Specifically, throw "Agentic Coders" some typical tasks in a complex, long-lived open-source project, such as:
❥ The Grunt Work: generate missing GoDocs, unit tests, and refactorings. Rebase PRs.
❥ The Complex Stuff: fix actual (historical) bugs and feature requests to see if they can traverse the complexity without (too much) human hand-holding.
❥ Hunting Down Gaps: find areas lacking in docs, areas of improvement in code, dependency bumps, and so on.
If time allows, also experiment with Model Context Protocol (MCP) to give agents context on our specific build pipelines and CI/CD logs.
Why?
We know AI can write "Hello World." and also moderately complex programs from a green field. But can it rebase a 3-month-old PR with conflicts in rancher/rancher? I want to find the breaking point of current AI agents to determine if and how they can help us to reduce our technical debt, work faster and better. At the same time, find out about pitfalls and shortcomings.
The CONCLUSION!!!
A
State of the Union
document was compiled to summarize lessons learned this week. For more gory details, just read on the diary below!
Self-Scaling LLM Infrastructure Powered by Rancher by ademicev0
Self-Scaling LLM Infrastructure Powered by Rancher

Description
The Problem
Running LLMs can get expensive and complex pretty quickly.
Today there are typically two choices:
- Use cloud APIs like OpenAI or Anthropic. Easy to start with, but costs add up at scale.
- Self-host everything - set up Kubernetes, figure out GPU scheduling, handle scaling, manage model serving... it's a lot of work.
What if there was a middle ground?
What if infrastructure scaled itself instead of making you scale it?
Can we use existing Rancher capabilities like CAPI, autoscaling, and GitOps to make this simpler instead of building everything from scratch?
Project Repository: github.com/alexander-demicev/llmserverless
What This Project Does
A key feature is hybrid deployment: requests can be routed based on complexity or privacy needs. Simple or low-sensitivity queries can use public APIs (like OpenAI), while complex or private requests are handled in-house on local infrastructure. This flexibility allows balancing cost, privacy, and performance - using cloud for routine tasks and on-premises resources for sensitive or demanding workloads.
A complete, self-scaling LLM infrastructure that:
- Scales to zero when idle (no idle costs)
- Scales up automatically when requests come in
- Adds more nodes when needed, removes them when demand drops
- Runs on any infrastructure - laptop, bare metal, or cloud
Think of it as "serverless for LLMs" - focus on building, the infrastructure handles itself.
How It Works
A combination of open source tools working together:
Flow:
- Users interact with OpenWebUI (chat interface)
- Requests go to LiteLLM Gateway
- LiteLLM routes requests to:
- Ollama (Knative) for local model inference (auto-scales pods)
- Or cloud APIs for fallback
